Trouble starting YS828 after dry

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Trouble starting YS828 after dry

giro
I got my Yamaha YS828T from a friend, the daughter of the original purchaser.  It's now 30 years old, and though we live in a high snow area (Lake Tahoe, averaging 300" a year in our town), the snow blower has been stored inside and is in good shape.  It's doing about as good as my Honda machines (HS928 and HS1132).  It is much better than my old 10HP MTD, in all things except turning.  All 4 are track based.

My interpretation is that the Yamaha is a clone of a Honda, though probably the older H80 ones.  I've never used one of those, but just helped a friend research his shifting problem, which sounds similar to my Yamaha shifting problem (later).

The Honda's are a little better in most areas, but I believe they are a little younger.  They start on the first half-pull, and the pull is vertical instead of to the side.  The hydrostatic speed control has never given a problem, and gives infinite choice of speed.

But, I like the Yamaha's height control better.  I don't have either of the honda's at the rental house that the Yamaha is at, so it's hard to compare the exact snow throwing due to varying conditions.  But the Yamaha does exceptionally there, even when going through 17" of wet snow, or 30" (over the bucket by a lot) of average 12:1 snow.  OTOH, my 2 Honda's do pretty well at distance also, especially considering they have both been used commercially, and so the augers and impeller are worn down considerably and things aren't perfectly balanced anymore.  Today the 928 was shooting older icy berm knockdown over the 10' berm and to the far side of the street 40' away.  And the 1132 shoots another 10' or so.

Anyways, just some background info, since I see people ask here about Honda vs Yamaha.  All of our neighbors up at 7500' have Hondas, and while these real big snow years have managed to break a couple parts on them, I'm always impressed with how well they do, and how they start on the first tiny pull.

On the Yamaha, I've had 2 problems.  One is getting into gear after shifting.  I think I just need to adjust the clutch barrel a bit, and I'm hoping it will work better after that.  Right now, often when I shift and then apply the drive lever, it doesn't move.  This is aggravating enough that I've just tried to keep it in 1st or second, and then pull it backwards when I need to back up.  

The other bigger problem is occasional no-start issues.  I had this first at the start of the season, after it ran this summer.  I cleaned out the carb, cleaned out the fuel pump, and eventually got it started.

But 2 days ago I ran it until dry.  After filling it back up, I couldn't get it started, manually or with the electric start.

The next day I checked spark, but the spark plug didn't smell of fuel.  I checked the carb again.  The main jet is striped so I can't get it out to clean all the main nozzle orfices, but I previously used a wire to clean out the center hole, and did this again.  I also removed and cleaned the pilot jet, which I hadn't done before.

After all of this I still had trouble getting it started.  I think this is when I saw fuel in the line going to the carb, and checked fuel after the fuel cock.  After that, it still had a little trouble, but then started.

I don't believe I've ever had a small engine with a separate fuel pump.  I see a few threads talking about trouble starting if the pump goes dry.  Is this a common issue, and is there a good workaround, like filling the tank all the way, or even using a 2x4 under a track to give a little more pressure after being dry?  What about adding an inline finger fuel pump (like on my MTD, or on some chainsaws and such), for recovering after dry?

Do most current carbs, like that used my Hondas, have a pump built into them?  If so, with an aftermarket carb could I get around having the pump.

I'd like to have some options, though I could also see putting a $200-$300 Harbor Freight engine onto this.

Thanks

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Re: Trouble starting YS828 after dry

leon
It is always best to shut the fuel off after every time you use it and treat the gas with seafoam or stabil.
Its always good to run non ethanol or high test fuel in small engines.
At the end of the year its always best to totally run the fuel out of the tank and then close the choke and then start it up again and let it run on full choke to consume all the gasoline in the system.
I do not believe that you have a pump on your beautiful blue snow mule as the tank is above the engine and carburetor as it would not be needed.

Chances are that you have gum and varnish in the fuel tank and its best to remove the tank and pour in some alcohol or peroxide and let it sit for a while and then pour in a few pebbles to shake around with the alcohol or peroxide to break up any sediment in the tank.
Its always a good idea to run a pipe cleaner up through the bottom of the tank to clean out any deposits of gum or varnish in the base of the tank and also to replace the fuel line too. Be sure to buy the more expensive fuel line and a fuel filter to go along with it-make sure it is the largest clear plastic fabric type or paper fuel filter with folds as it provides the greatest filter area.

If can also drain the fuel bowl all the better in the off season to prevent any build up of gum or varnish on the caruburator float which will affect how the snow blower runs making it run too rich.
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Re: Trouble starting YS828 after dry

giro
Yep, it does have a pump, as shown in the parts diagram:  http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/yamahagenuineparts/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=yamahaope&a=185&b=5&c=0&d=1900%20YS828TM%20AIR%20FILTER%20-%20CARBURETOR

Non-float based carbs, like that on a chainsaw, weedwacker, and the small mantis cultivator, often have a pump as part of the carb since they are held at many angles.  But it looks like most small gas engines with a float just use gravity by having the tank a little higher.  Some people here talked of having to prime the pump, and having trouble getting it working right after being empty.  I'm pretty sure at this point that that is my problem.

I'll see about cleaning out the tank after this season.  I wish they made it easier on these small engines to drain the fuel, but pulling the hose isn't too bad.  It looks like the hose has been replaced at some point.

Personally, I'm in favor of running small engines dry at the end of their season, and my dad did that on the now 40 year old chainsaws he gave me that have never needed a new carb or a major clean.  They're not my primary ones now, but they are still working when needed.  Whereas I've worked on a few small engines given to me, and even a Honda on a pressure washer had it's jet completely clogged up since it was left with fuel in it.  I'm up to over 15 small engines, it seems like the key is to run them dry when you can (at least the carb, but ideally the tank too), and put in stabil for the occasions that you forget, such as when a cable broke mid-season on one of my blowers, and so I stopped using it.

If anyone has good tips and tricks to make re-priming the pump easy and work every time, please post.  Likewise, if there's a good alternate carb that doesn't need a pump, that would be good to know of.
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Re: Trouble starting YS828 after dry

leon
It sounds as if it is air locking then so you may have the diaphragm in the pump going bad.

I would not mess with fitting a  new carburetor on it if you can purchase a replacement diaphragm pump.
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Re: Trouble starting YS828 after dry

cpchristee
In reply to this post by giro
The pump has a hard time re-priming after it's air filled.   In that situation, I apply pressure to the tank/system by giving mouth-to-mouth to the filler for about 5-10 seconds.  That moves enough air and fuel through the pump and into the carb to start  right up.  After that the vacuum pulses from the running engine is enough to keep it running.  I don't run it dry for summer any more - just stabilize the fuel instead.

It'll never be a first pull starter because of that fuel pump.